Thursday, July 10, 2008

Alright let's put our boots on and get back to work.

I would like to preface this retort by saying a couple of things. First and foremost, Candy is sometimes correct when she say that she was not lying. What Candy does is leave out important information. Information like she did not graduate from college, but instead says “I majored in business.” This gives the impression that she graduated. She does this a lot in order to fall back on well I didn’t say this or I didn’t say that. She omits relevant information or embellishes something to the point of creating a false statement, and then when called on it she states that I never said I didn’t live in a mobile home, but instead she just does not allow the comments to be posted, or never answers questions about it.
Secondly, post a link about inventors hall of fame, or send us the official Mensa invitation. Those would clear it up. Thirdly, I know that you offer to allow us to use your turf to ask you questions, but listen little boy who cried wolf, why would we trust you to air our questions in an open manner? Why would we think today, and only today you will not be moderated or delete? Lastly, there was some fluff or BS in this post. Stuff about her children’s SS numbers. We don’t care about that. I don’t care about Jane Austen. I don’t care about Ebay. I only care about the lies that you tell. I am not going to peek through your window to verify you make your own buttermilk. I am not going to ask you and your children to provide their SS numbers. That stuff really doesn’t mean much to me. I care about your embellishments. I care about the ways you exaggerate your life, and your accomplishments, and this is what I will address:

“A few very nice ladies left me some private comments, telling me about some slander about me on the net. I don't have time or interested to get into detail, as I have nothing to prove.“

First of all a lie. You have gone to the site yourself. You could not have found all the small posts and comments that you asked me to delete. You could not have found some of the obscure discussion on the blog, and yes we saw you visiting. Ladies may have informed you, but you were watching. Now I can’t prove this to Ginger or Trish, but anyone with common sense knows.

“HUSBAND, EBAY, AND JOB SITUATION - I don't think our financial status is any one's business, but I will say that hubby got a pay raise, and we are financially just fine. We even have luxuries, such as eating out, and satellite TV. :-) As for hubby's spending on eBay, most of the time, that stuff isn't for us - it's stuff we get for friends, or for work. "
“Yes, the average upper-middle class child may be spoiled, in my opinion. It is not at all rude of me to have this opinion. If a child is getting 200 dollar sneakers, when they could get a good pair for 30 dollars, then that is spoiled, and unnecessary spending. That money could have been put to better use - missionary work, for example. I consider children who get to play video games and watch TV all day to be spoiled. I consider that if children have a little motor on their bicycle, so that they don't have to pedal and get exercise - spoiled. That comment was never an attack on you, nor on small families. Your comment was the ONLY one that took offense. You misunderstood. I didn't publish your comment, because it just didn't make sense with what we were discussing - which was the Duggars - NOT you.”

So I guess it is okay to the children of people with money to call them spoiled, or judge the way their parents spend their money, but it is not okay to question your financial situation or decisions that you make concerning money?? Why is that? This is typical Candy. To condemn some one and then turn around and be appalled when someone does it to her. Did she ever stop and think that maybe $30.00 to her is $200.00 to the next person with a higher financial status? Did she ever stop to consider that a designer t-shirt doesn’t make a kid spoiled or vain, but could just be some of the joys that having money. When you have money you can give things to your children. Did she ever consider that a spoiled child is one that gets everything they want regardless of their actions?? Their are plenty of spoiled poor children. Yes they do not get $200 shoes, but they get their way with supper, play time, night time, etc. Probably not, but then again she doesn’t think that bashing other’s religion, and then taking offense when someone questions hers is hypocritical either.

“MY HOME - It is no secret that we live in a mobile home. “

Yes the truth. Liberating huh? Guess what, I bet you do not hear a peep about this again from us. But you know what you did Candy. You know you were approached by a pleasant comment about your mobile home, and was told how nice it was, and you did not post it. We are not the same sheep that you can, with ease, pull the wool over our eyes.

“MY 2YR OLD'S BROKEN LEG - Yes, a few years ago one of my children - aged 2 at the time, broke his leg after jumping from the top bunk of a bunk bed. There is a lie being perpetuated, that we didn't seek medical help. WRONG. I have no problem with modern medicine, and have taken my children to the doctors. We utilize the dentist, eye doctor, medial doctors, hospitals, etc. - WHENEVER NEEDED. When my child broke his leg, it was in the evening. Under medical advice, we were instructed to wait until the morning, and see, after the swelling went down, if he still couldn't bear weight on his leg. He was given medication for the pain, but he never acted like it hurt much.The next day, he couldn't bear his weight still, so we took him to the hospital for X-Rays. We were ALL expecting a sprain, and were surprised to find a fracture. His leg still had a lot of swelling, so it was wrapped and splinted. The doctor wanted the swelling down more, so the appointment for the cast wasn't set until four days later.”

Well this would make a lot of sense if there wasn’t an internet. When you can go back and find statements such as I never go to the doctor, or I can’t afford to go to the dentist and thus my teeth are falling apart, it really makes changing your past statements difficult. So which is it? Are you lying now, or were you lying then? Either way still a liar. .

ITU CERTIFICATION - I had mentioned somewhere in the past that I'm ITU certified. I never said I'm "IT Certified," because I'm not. ITU was the name of a technical school that used to either be run by Packard Bell, or by the company that was contracting with them that I was working for. I was paid 10 or 11 dollars per hour (don't remember which) to attend this school. It was called IT University. I graduated this school with a diploma, and was considered ITU Certified. I was not allowed to work for the Contract Company and Packard Bell, until after I had been ITU Certified.”

ITU certification exist, but not for individuals. Take a picture of your certification. Post it, but I know what it looks like. I have researched it. Just admit that only two corporations have received ITU certification and it was not IBM or Packard Bell. Oh wait, guess again, you don't get an ITU certificate. You get to post it on your coporate letterhead.

“MODELING SCHOOL “-

I have no doubt this is true. Funny, but it is probably true, considering the application process for modeling school just requires a small rectangular piece of paper with your signature at the bottom called a check.

“MENSA - The Mensa website used to have their official IQ test online. They took it down years ago. I was curious what my IQ was, so I took their test - figuring it was the most accurate I could have access to. Their test said my IQ was 135. A previous test (I think through IVillage?) said I was 140. I figure I'm probably really at 125, but who knows... Anyhow, I was emailed by MENSA after my test scores were reviewed (I didn't know that anyone would be looking at my scores, I just wanted to take a test - for kicks) I was emailed. I was told in that email that I qualified for MENSA, and was invited to apply to join. I didn't want to join, so I didn't apply.”

We have gone over this and over this many a time. You do not get invited to join Mensa. You either qualify or you don’t. Secondly, how could there be an objective test for Mensa on the internet? You could have a Mensa candidate take the test for you, you could research while taking the test, and guess what again, the people at Mensa are geniuses and thus are capable of seeing through the mass charades and cheats that would be accepted into Mensa if it were done over the internet.

“OUR BROWN RECLUSE "PROBLEM" -

I doubt that they were bit, first of all. Secondly, it is just flat out horrible to live with poisonous spiders. Thirdly, you are not a doctor. Quit giving out medical advice: especially when all the doctors and medical sites suggest you should immediately seek medical attention. I would also like to note that it is impossible to turn your water heater up past 120 degrees. That is a national plumbing code requirement. Why you might ask? Because 120 degrees is the temperature that burns babies skin. Hmmm, makes sense right?

MY COLLEGE EDUCATION - I did not graduate college, and never claimed that I did. I joined a correspondence college, called ICS Learning Systems. I was going for a degree in Business Management, but I lost interest and stopped – that’s the plain truth. :-PMY HIGHSCHOOL EDUCATION - I went to public school until after I completed the 10th grade. Then, I home schooled myself through the rest of high school via a correspondence high school called "American High School." They were great, and urged their students to visit their main building whenever possible. I found the correspondence homeschool MUCH harder than public school, and that made it more fun and enriching for me. I will always be thankful for American High.

How do you know if it was harder? You did not go, and seriously how hard can it be when you teach yourself? That really doesn’t require someone challenging you on a daily basis. Who grades your work? There is also a reason there is a law forbidding this type of home schooling as well. Once again leaving out the important part such as I never graduated from college, but I did major in business, for a semester, through the internet, and not an accredited university, and they accept people without a high school diploma. Boooo.

WHY HAVEN'T I SHARED ANY OF THESE SPECIFICS BEFORE? - I never knew I had to "prove" myself. This is a BLOG; my personal writings and musings. I just write what I feel like writing, while still keeping my anonymity. Little did I know that I'd have so many readers. In my very first blog post, I wrote about how I'd probably be the only reader of my blog. Not too long after that, I had 20 regular readers - I thought that was so cute, that anyone would be interested in what I have to write. Then, I leapt to 100, then 1,000, then 2,000, and now my latest Site Meter average has me bouncing between 2,300 visits per day, to 2,500.If they don't find some fault in what I wrote, then they turn to my grammar and spelling. I really don't care about having perfect grammar and spelling on this blog - I type it in a HURRY - blogging is not one of my top priorities…”

Well take the grammar and spelling into the context of you’re a Mensa candidate, and when you profess how smart you are. Secondly, yes your blog does get a lot of hits, but how many are from people like me and my readers. We go to look at the absurdity of you and your followers. Also our blog kills yours on number of comments. We are averaging around 80 per post. I also would like to point out when you qualify yourself as an expert, the only thing that qualifies you is your credentials. Thus, yes you do have to prove yourself when you state you are a genius, your husband is a genius, you’re an expert in theology, you’re a whiz at computers, and your husband is in the inventors hall of fame. Wait a minute, you stated these things qualifying yourself. You were not asked for them. You boasted about this stuff when retorting to a comment. So “I never knew I had to ‘prove’ myself.” doesn’t really apply when we are retorting to your bragging. My God man surely others can see through all this crap.

“An ApologyI am a BLUNT person, so I often just state things bluntly, and sometimes, in harsh terminology. I do not do this intentionally. If my words have ever hurt anyone on this blog, please know it was not intentional, and please accept my apologies. I’m not out to hurt anyone.”

This apology is like kicking someone in the groin and apologizing to them that their balls go in the way of their foot. People did let you know that you offended them, and you continued on the same road. Now after a blog dedicated to refuting you, making you justify your lies, and holding you accountable now you apologize. That is like the rapist in prison finding Jesus in order to get parole.

“Before ending this post, I just want to say that if someone reading this has a genuine inquiry as to my honesty on something that they deem worth even paying attention to, then to please leave me a private comment about it. In my next post, I'll try to address those issues. However, this will not be the norm for this blog, as that is not my vision for this blog. I desire this blog to be an uplifting blog about Christian ladies keeping their homes.Today only will I be asking for these types of comments, and tomorrow only will I address them, and then we will move on... :-)
Meanwhile, Chris, if you are really trying to find "the truth," then please post your questions on my blog, and I will be addressing them later today.”

Why would anyone trust that you would do this openly? Why would anyone think you were sincere? Secondly, I don’t need your lies about your lies to clear stuff up. What you say is easily researched and refuted. You talk about things you have no idea about, and hope that no one will either. This would give you a pass, but we are watching. We are counting the seconds for the next lie. That is the deal with people that are insecure and habitual liars, it is not an easy habit to break. Keep it up and we will continue to have a successful blog.

C "Hmmm. Just a couple of weeks ago candy posted this: "I dedicate the below song to Elena and the other anti-Candy-ites:The Lord has called me to do a very special job, to spread the Gospel of Christ, and I WON'T BACK DOWN... :-D"A A common theme I find with most of my critics, is that they try to guess my motives, then judge me off of that. EVERY single time I've received a comment about my motives - it's been wrong. My motive for putting up the "won't back down" song, was purely as stated - I WON'T BACK DOWN. I will continue to spread the Gospel of Christ, and I won't be stopped. I'm not fighting anyone, or picking a fight with anyone, I'm just stating that my critics are not going to stop me from spreading the good news of Christ to as many people as I possibly can. Furthermore, this let them know that if they are trying to stop me, they are wasting their time, and would be better off pursuing more obtainable goals.

Our goal is to show people the farce you are. It is not an unobtainable goal. I am doing it now. Don’t back down, and we won’t either. I can’t believe I am still on this Tom Petty reference.

"Why do you state your opinions so harshly?"A As I pointed out in yesterday's post, and described in detail in my "Who I Am" post (linked in the sidebar), I am a blunt person, known to be brutally honest. I freely admit to having a lack of tact. :-) Not being very tactful has its downside, but it also has its upside - in that it gives me a lot of credibility. Also, it's up to each individual reader to decide to be insulted at what I write, or to simply brush it off and not worry about it. Being offended and insulted must occur in the mind of the hearer, regardless of the intentions of the speaker/writer, so ultimately, the responsibility is with the person who chooses to be, or not to be, insulted. This is called taking personal responsibility for one's own thoughts and interpretations."

Kind of like screaming fire in a theater huh. This one has several gems in it. First "honesty"….yeah that is all I am going to say about that. Secondly, "credibility"…enough there as well. Yes you have a lack of tact, so do we. So why are your readers so upset? We have been asked about two wrongs don’t make a right, but in order to make this statement there has to be a given to that statement, which is you are wrong to begin with. There is no way to make this argument without conceding that a wrong started the discussion. So I have a question for your readers that comment here with this statement, “Where didn't you step up when the first wrong was committed?” We have heard a lot about courage or the lack there of. Where is the courage to stand up to insulting and offensive statements? I guess that takes an act of bravery, or requires the ability to posses courage in the first place.
Now with this ridiculous statement about it really isn’t Candy that is offensive it is your ears that are offensive. I mean really, talk about talking in circles. So let me get this right. I guy stands up and yell the word “nigger” in public, and the true problem isn’t really with the racist guy screaming offensive language. The true problem is the African American hearer's inability to take “personal responsibility for one’s own thoughts and interpretations.” What the hell? So it isn't really offensive, Catholics are just sensitive for being told that their whole way of life is wrong. Fair enough I guess. So where was this understanding in your email to me Candy? Why did you write that email? You should have known all along that the true issue was with you; in your own thoughts and interpretations. Seriously, what a load of crap that is. Talk about some new age religious mumbo jumbo. It is all with you, not within others, for they can not affect you …ummm…..ummmm….ummm….
So intentions are not important to what is offensive. Well first, that once again has to presuppose that you intended something negative in the first place. This is why you disregard it as not important. Kind of like when you say,
“I have never knowingly lied on my blog. Either way, I don't see what the big deal would be. ???”

“C "Are you going to continue to post the anti-Catholic rhetoric?"A I will continue to post the truth, and spread the Gospel. I will continue to tell the Gospel to Catholics and to Protestants. Like the song says - "I won't back down." However, I've pretty much said all I need to say about the Catholic church here. I think I have it all out on the table, so I don't have anymore RC articles planned for the near future.”

So there is her olive twig to the Catholics, but it will only be a matter of time. . This is why we are here. She will soon either pick a new religion to pick on or she will eventually fall back to bashing the Catholics. And as I said it only took a paragraph before, dun, dun, dun:

" I've also posted about New Age, The Emergent Church movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. However, I have a special place in my heart for Roman Catholics, and love them so dearly. They are people who think they are doing God a service, yet so many of them that I have spoken to (in person) had no idea that salvation is in Christ alone, and that once one has accepted Christ's FREE gift, they are savED, not in a long, drawn out process, of "being saved." I rejoice, because so many souls have come out of the RC religion, and testified to me that my writings had something to do with it. I saw a whole family's life change in just a 6 month period, after they came out of RC, and into true, saving faith. I specifically target the RC Church, because its many members truly think they are Christians, but the very writings of the RC church say that if one believes that Christ alone is their Saviour, and they are savED by faith alone, then they are anathema. So many RCs don't know their own Catechism and writings of the Holy See. There are some truly saved Christians in the RC church, and God is calling them out of it. I am part of that plan. This is part of the path I am to walk, and part of my job from God. I take up my cross and follow Him gladly."

Wow one paragraph and then Indian giving the deal. That has to be some type of record. If you aren’t Catholic bashing, then why do you target them specifically? And don’t worry to all the “New Age, The Emergent Church movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.” she has you in her sights too.

“A Please read this for an explanation why. I don't recall your comments, but I would guess you possibly continuously reposted the same thing over and over, so I banned you, in order to have peace in my comments, or you started your comment off with some derogatory, incorrect statement, such as "why do you lie?", or "why do you hate Catholics?" or something along those lines. I will freely tell you that when comments start off with such trivial statements, I tend to reach for that delete key, without reading further.”


Your trivial disagreeing statements will not be posted. I will not acknowledge anything that questions Candy. I don’t think the comments start off like that, but usually start off with “I have to tell you…etc.” or something else that is not just simplistic, but okay I will give you those. How about the others? You know, the ones that are intelligent, refuting questions? Why don’t those get posted?

“Another possibility is that you were not banned, but that your IP range overlaps someone who is banned. However, I currently only have two bans in my IP list, and you're posting now, so it's likely that you thought you were banned the other day, when if fact Haloscan (my commenting system) was down, and no one could comment for a day.”

So you don’t ban huh? You don’t redirect? Could it be that you banned them? Could it be that you did not want to deal with them any longer? I mean you have said it all along. You have said it very bluntly and without tact. You have told people it is your blog and you can post or do what ever you want. So why are you defending that there tough guy? The “I am not one for the wishy washy” person that boasts it everyday on her blog. You contradict your self all the way through these articles. They were posted less than forty eight hours apart. Do you have cognitive dissonance?

"Why can't I find your husband's name in the Inventor's Hall of Fame?"A For one, he was inducted several years before the year 2000, and I'm not sure the online records go beyond that. Second, there are two official Inventor's Hall of Fames, so you may be looking in the wrong one. Third, he wasn't inducted for an invention, but on a theory, and was inducted along with the whole group that was working with him on the theory. Therefore, I don't know if his individual name would appear, or not. I remember we flew down to Atlanta, GA to receive the reward, and flew back home miserable, with severe food poisoning. :-(

So show me the money! Post the link! Tell us where to find this remarkable achievement. Or was it the Not So Important or Worthy or Not Even an Invention But an Idea Inventors Hall of Fame? You know the one no one really knows about, and it doesn’t really count. Guess what again, you can go back past 2000, but even yet guess again, you can also see what type of inventions were inducted just recently. THEY ARE NOT RECENT INVENTIONS. This is not how it works. You don’t even know how it works. You can tell by your stumbling answer, and sad face with the colon and parentheses at the end. What was the theory? You do realize that everyone inducted this year is either seventy or dead? This means these are tried and true Inventions; not theories. You can also see that everyone involved in the invention is credited. Was he the guy that answered the phone at the company where Styrofoam was invented? Is this one of those I am not going to tell you everything to make it sound a lot better. Well in the same defense just because I have been crapping in a toilet for over thirty years doesn’t make me a plumber. Meaning, that you omit the really important stuff to where it becomes a lie. It becomes a half truth, and it is deceptive. It is deceptive and you are knowingly deceiving, but like you said, “I don't see what the big deal would be. ???”

We are very much pro-government, and that is why we support the U.S. Constitution, including my first amendment right on this blog. Government is necessary for the protection of our rights and property. My husband is a member of the Constitution Party, and I am a registered Republican. If we were anti-government, then we would move to some little, backward country. :-?

Why don’t you pay your taxes. You are anti government. Your husband has stated it, and you have posted those statements. Your husband bashes government involvement in just about everything, except keeping the Mexicans out. You posted the Bob Barr for President on your site. He is a Libertarian. They are against government. The Constitution Party is a bunch of strict Constitutionalist; that believe in trimming down our government. Do you know what you believe in, or does “hubby” show you how to vote. Stop making me be an involuntary servant to you and your family. Pay your taxes, render unto Cesar, regardless if you feel it is wrong. It is the law. You have stated that you don’t believe in breaking the law. If you did not hate government you would support it. Remember that on your next drive down the highway, remember it the next time there is a national emergency, remember when you need the police, and remember it when illegal immigrants are pouring into our country and our country cannot afford to stop it. Keep complaining about that, but keep making it worse. Hey Mr. Minuteman: Your argument about the “founding documents” not including “involuntary servitude,” you do remember that all of the signatures on that document were by slave owners right?

“Chris, this is Candy - the one you call a "nutjob." I've had no interest in reading this blog, because I thought it would just be like the VTC blog. However, this blog has become something serious, and I must warn you that the FBI may become involved, because you have pictures of my home, my and my family's full name, and my address published.Furthermore, because of this blog, my family is now in physical danger. Complete strangers are coming to MY HOME, because of this blog and the information posted therein.I don't believe it is your intent to put my life in danger, but alas, this blog IS DOING SUCH.
Furthermore, because of this blog, my family is now in physical danger. Complete strangers are coming to MY HOME, because of this blog and the information posted therein.I am now being physically stalked - because of this blog. There is a person following me and my family around, watching and writing down every little thing we do. I wouldn't doubt if this person stares through my windows, as this is a very sick individual.Chris, I'm hoping you are a person of integrity, and will please just leave me alone, as I nothing against you, I am just a fellow blogger. I'd hope that you have better things to do, rather than slander me.”

Candy I am a person of integrity. None of us wish you harm or hate you. Everyone on this blog has stated that until we are blue in the face. I will not leave you alone. I have plenty against you, and you can read it all here. You are the reason I am a “fellow blogger.” I don’t have better things to do than fight injustice. I personally think it is admirable. You are not in physical danger, you were not being followed, and your phone has never been tapped. You are not being physically stalked. You ran into a person on this blog in a small town. That is not called stalking. That is called a small town. Have you ever thought about that personal responsibility thing when you are telling me that now “because of this blog, my family is now in physical danger.” Have you ever thought that it is your offensive statements that brought about this blog, and the attention that is a double edge sword. This site is not for the wishy washy either, Candy. We are serious, smart, and analytical here. Your crazy talk, your circular arguments, and your BS we smell from miles away. We don’t attack your supporters that come here. We are respectful, but we do disagree. That is not an attack. That is called being able to intelligently defend our positions. Sorry they do not have the protection of your moderating. We don’t do that here. I will respect the privacy of your children, but your children are the only reason there is any leniency. You can say what ever you want about the people on this blog, but I can tell you this, everyone of these regular readers (yes Mr. and Julie) are smart, quick witted, and have great hearts. I would take their opinions and stories over yours any day. Such is the same with your readers and you. Call the FBI (which you don’t pay for, but I will purchase that luxury for you though). You don’t know what slander is. You don’t know what stalking is. We have done neither. We do not lie about you, and the worse thing is for you to prove it you must go to court, and that gives us transcripts. Ooops.
Thanks to all my readers. You all are the inspiration. You all have told me that this tiny little blog means something. You all have the courage and the sense of humor to stand up to this ridiculousness. It has been fun, and remember “We Won’t Back Down.” (Damn Candy for making me refer to Tom Petty so much).

256 comments:

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Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

Candy says:
Thankfully, since I didn't have any religious upbringing,

She also tells people to forget everything they were ever taught... yet she does bible study every day with her children, (her 1 yo!).

Why not practice what she preaches, teach them to read and to think, and let them read the bible and decide for themselves?

Maybe I just answered my own question.

As for the Meez party, I was there for several hours (had to do something while husband watched Superbad. If we're on the couch together does that count as a date?) I didn't see anyone get saved, but I did see several people jump all over Erik about "once saved always saved" - girls and guys (at least their Meez were girls and guys).

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

I don't know, Tracy M. seems like she can spell fairly consistently. It could be someone else.

Or she could have discovered spell check, finally. She should have been using spell check from the gecko, though.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I just read her testimony and I have to say, it is too vague to do anyone any good. Aren't testimonies supposed to aid in helping others find Jesus? This testimony has no definitive information of anything. No personal experience other than the fact that her husband was Catholic and she had no religious upbringing. She doesn't say anything other than that she was a sinner - well, duh, aren't we all?

I wouldn't get a damn thing out of that testimony even if I were looking for something to lead me to Jesus.

As usual, she has done all she can to avoid actually saying anything of importance, or anything that might make her look like less of a perfect housewife. What is the point of "sharing" your testimony if you are not honest and don't share it all? What is the point of a testimony if it is full of holes? What is the point of a testimony if it goes out of its way to avoid actually saying anything?

It left me flat. I cannot imagine how irrelevant it would be to anyone who might be looking for testimonies with a purpose of learning from others.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

And a note to Tracy M, whoever she is...

. It felt more like he had memorized something out of a book and said, "Okay, I'll use this for this week's sermon."

He DID get it out a book, it's called the Gospel. We hear some of it at every Mass (along with an epistle, usually from St. Paul, psalms, and other OT passages).

Anonymous said...

Milehimama, you make a good point. If Candy tells others to forget everything they learned as a child, why is she bothering to do bible study with her children? If they grow up and take her advice, they'll just ignore all that she teaches them and decide for themselves.

I think you did answer your own question, but it brings up a point that I think those who hang on her every word should really think about.

Amanda #1 said...

Also, I'm annoyed by the whole notion that if you're "truly saved" your life will change immediately and you'll be a new person. Maybe it's the Catholic coming out in me, but I don't think it works that way. Let me give some personal history...

For the longest time, I didn't understand that Catholics were different than other Christians. (Sounds dumb, I know, but I can count on one hand the number of non-Catholics I graduated with in my public high school.) The whole notion of being "saved" or "born again" was foreign. I mean, I'd never sat down and "accepted" Jesus, but I believed he died for my sins and all that.

Dorky confession time: I kinda enjoy watching the 700 Club. I don't watch the first 15 minutes of their news coverage, but I enjoy the rest. As such, at the end of every episode, they urge you to pray with them what is essentially, "The Sinner's Prayer." I prayed it several times, out of concern that I somehow wasn't truly "saved." At no point did a feeling of "new-ness" wash over me. I'm sure she'd say it was because I was a Catholic and wasn't sincere and was never "truly" saved. I assure you, however, that I was very earnest each time I said my prayer.

Then I went to college and briefly joined a bible study. We all shared our salvation stories (of course, being Catholic, I was lost as to what they were talking about, and didn't have one). Of all those girls who shared their story, not one related this feeling of joy washing over them or that they became a "new person" immediately. And yet Candy alleges that EVERY, TRULY SAVED person experiences this feeling. So were these girls not truly saved?

Again, it's the Catholic coming out in me, but the idea of "once saved, always saved" is flawed to me. The idea that you say a prayer, the holy spirit decends upon, and your life will be joyfilled forever more seems just a bit Pollyanna-ish to me. Yes, you're saved, but the idea that you no longer have to work at it is ridiculous.

You don't automatically become a Saint by asking Jesus to enter your heart (of course, Candy and I have differing definitions of "saint", but you all know what I'm getting at). It's an every day struggle to make the right choices. She makes it sound like you accept Jesus and life becomes a cake walk: just say, "Jesus, I love you!" read the Bible (the KJV, of course!), and you will never again have a struggle in your life, morally, financially, or otherwise.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I think she's setting people up for disappointment.

Anonymous said...

Amanda, you make another good point.

I live in the metro-area of the city where Jeffrey Dahmer lived and killed. So, even though he is dead now himself, he is still brought up a lot.

We were at a summer festival and there were some born again Christians there, preaching about salvation and being saved and all that. They had a booth and everything, with lots of tracts; many along the lines of Chick tracts. One of those tracts, that was almost forced into my friend's hand as we walked by, said something along the lines of: "how do you know you're truly saved?" The answer was "if you understand salvation and are saved but if you believe he is in hell you think his works were more important than his soul". We trashed the tract at the nearest garbage can so I can't recite it word for word, but that was the gist of it.

Dahmer claimed to have become a born again Christian while in prison; his parents said that he was saved as a child.

But I cannot, for any reason, accept that Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven. No matter what he claimed about his life in prison. He was supposedly a Christian before he went on his killing spree.

So, was he saved as a child and then regardless of his actions went to heaven anyway? Did he lose his salvation through his actions and then gain it back again while in prison? Did he say the sinners prayer, become saved, and then get to do whatever he wanted? Or, did the way he lived his life determine his afterlife?

I tend to think that the way you live your life is just as important as what you believe.

Rachel said...

Amanda,

I totally hear you thru that post! I, too, cannot understand the whole being saved and having the Holy Spirit fill you. Guess cause we've had the Holy Spirit since Baptism?? I was reading a blog I stumbled on and the woman was of another religion and asked if anyone was going to a specific conference. Someone commented "yes, i go every year since having the Holy Spirit dwell in me and light me on fire." And then went on to say, "The Holy spirit leads my life daily now." I kinda took it as metaphorically speaking. I have seen a lot this particular religion talking about the Holy Spirit leading them here and making them do this and that and they felt led by the Holy Spirit and it was pressed upon their hearts. etc. I wonder if they are doing/saying these things becuase, well, it's expected. I mean, I feel God pulling me to do things.. but I don't say things like He pressed it upon my heart. I tend to think dramatics when it comes to stuff like that. Makes for a good show/story. I dunno, just what's on my mind at the moment.

I do think Candy is meaning that she forgot all she was taught as a child about the Bible becuase there was nothing really taught - remember, her daddy only taught her the Golden Rule. That's how I understood it.

I do have a hard time believing someone was saved.. and figured it was her husband posing.. to back up her claims. What perfect timing to save someone in the midst of all her posts and bashing lately.

Another thing that I wondered... does Candy not see spreading the Word as works? I thought there was no works needed? This sticks out in my head today:

Matthew 7:21
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

A faith without works is dead.

Does one need to be saved at one moment in time, or does one need to have a living faith?

Rachel said...

Living Faith!

But when we say that they claim we believe salvation is an ongoing process and they believe when you are saved.. you are SAVED.

Well.. it IS ongoing when you have to walk the walk (or try to!) every day. Right?

Sal said...

Credit where it's due:
MoM did take down the "Catechism Cult" link and replace it with the article she described.

So, I'm willing to accept that it was an honest mistake.

Re: 'Works'
I think the difference to Candy and friends is 'works as fruit of the working of the Holy Spirit in your life' vs. 'works required by the Church", like the sacraments, Sunday Mass and so on.
It would make a big difference if they could see those things as the sources of grace that we do. We don't do them b/c we're scared NOT to, we do them b/c we love Jesus and want to be obedient to Him and we know they give us the grace to live a life pleasing to God.

Sal said...

Ooops- sorry Matt. Didn't mean to go all apologetics on you...

But I agree that Candy means one should forget everything they were taught by a 'man-made church' and didn't personally glean from their own reading of the Bible.

Nicole said...

Your life should change once you are saved but it may not happen immediately. It just depends on the person just like everything else in life. I know for myself it took a few years for God to break down my own stubborn pride and will before any true change came around.

Nicole said...

I can not edit my comment so I have to add here that the whole washing of the Holy Spirit is a feeling. Salvation should NOT be based on a feeling or then when things get tough and those great feeling go away you are stuck doubting your salvation.

Maggii said...

But I cannot, for any reason, accept that Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven. No matter what he claimed about his life in prison. He was supposedly a Christian before he went on his killing spree.

****
I can believe that he 'could' be in heaven...IF he truly repented ..and truly was remorseful....only God would Know that for sure though....

Nicole said...

Maybe I heard a different story but i was told Jeffery Dahmer was saved while in prison AFTER the killing spree not before. I can accept that he repented and was forgiven after it happened but I can not buy that he was truly saved and then went on a killing spree.

Esther said...

You cannot go by emotions and feelings where salvation is concerned. However, you also cannot quantify God's grace and free gift of salvation. Just because you cannot 'understand' it, does not make it any less true.

God's ways are not our ways - for which I am thankful. Humans are not naturally good, fair, wise, loving, unselfish and forgiving. We'd all be in big trouble if God was like us. I would never have been forgiven of my many sins and granted this free gift.

Matthew, I am praying for you - I am sure you will not understand the 'why' of me choosing to do this. Let it suffice to say that I understand that you have evidently had an extremely bad experience with organized religion/denominations; and, now you are putting your 'faith' in humanism. That will get you nowhere good, I can assure you. I pray that God will touch you in a way that you can accept Him.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

If when the Holy Spirit came to dwell within her, and is still there today, then why does she not want us to judge who she used to be (her reason for not having comments on past posts or archives?)

Esther said...

I realize, of course, that this blog exists to counteract the Keeping the Home blog and all things Candy. I am not here to defend someone's personal theology concerning the salvation of Catholics. It is unfortunate that many people are being 'lumped' into the 'fundamentalist' one-size-fits-all form. That being said, I can answer your question concerning why Candy does not feel that her past is relative to her testimony - at least in this form. Once the free gift of salvation is accepted, you are washed clean of all past sins. You will not be judged on them by God (unfortunately, man does not have the same policy). After a salvation experience, you are required to live as a Christian - bearing fruits of the Spirit and to live as close to your Savior as possible. It is a life-long journey that involves learning from Biblically based teachers, personal Bible study and the use of quality materials, and probably most important of all, people who have been making the journey.

It is up to each person - after acceptance - to start on this road. Unfortunately, many do not or they become entangled with unfortunate teachings. It is very hard to convince the recipient of blighted teachings that they may be wrong.

Amanda #1 said...

I also wanted to say that I don't mean to doubt that CANDY felt the spirit of the Lord descend upon her, or that her life changed immediately. What bothers me is that she says that for it to be a REAL salvation, you MUST have the same experience. That's ludicrous.

Amanda #1 said...

After a salvation experience, you are required to live as a Christian - bearing fruits of the Spirit and to live as close to your Savior as possible.

Sounds like works.

It is very hard to convince the recipient of blighted teachings that they may be wrong.

Sounds like Candy.

Esther said...

Amanda, you shouldn't assume as to which blighted theology I am referring. As long as someone professes Jesus as their Lord, believing in the virgin birth, His death at Calvary and subsequent resurrection, confessing their sins and acknowledging their innate sinful nature of which only God can cleanse, I would call them Christian. However, that question can only truly be answered by that person and God. We hear God's commandment to be saved through Jesus from Paul, Peter's, James, Timothy, Jude, Luke, John and, of course, Jesus Himself, but it is still totally up to the individual on whether or not they will accept what is freely given and freely offered.

Works without faith is dead. Paul waxed quite eloquently about this subject.

Amanda #1 said...

Esther, I had a feeling that you and I weren't thinking along the same lines, however, those were the first thoughts that popped in my head when I read your post.

Anonymous said...

You know, I don't understand a lot of theology and doctrine. But, I usually try when it is discussed. It is never a bad thing to learn.

But, I stand by my feelings regarding Dahmer, and anyone else who intentionally does harm to innocent people.

One can repent, but I can't accept that they will end up in heaven with the likes of Mother Theresa. If that is the case, someone can live on this earth for 70 years and do nothing good for anyone else ever, and live a life void of morals. Then, when they find Jesus, and truly believe they've found Jesus, they are suddenly washed clean and can then enter heaven with their victims.

I guess, in the end, that is one of the major road blocks between me and religion.

I understand where your different view points are coming from, but I can't get on board with them.

Amanda #1 said...

Tia, that's why purgatory is such a great thing: presumably, it's hell on a smaller scale. You're purified before you're allowed in God's presense. If I could know that Dahmer had to spend a great deal of time in purgatory, I could be okay with him in heaven.

But all this assumes that we believe that he was truly repentant.

Esther said...

Tia, never let someone else's sin or repentance - whether real or otherwise - stand between you and your Savior. Forget 'religion'. Religion is man made. God's grace is a gift. We do not have to understand the how's or the why's - we just have a choice of whether or not to accept it. We are each responsible for our individual response. I am not responsible for your response, or Candy's, or my husband's, etc. I am responsible for my decision. I am, however, responsible for speaking the truth: God's grace is a free gift.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

Esther,
I have to disagree. I think first and foremost one must believe that Jesus was truly man AND truly God in order to even be a nominal Christian.

IMO, people who do not believe that Christ was God aren't Christians.

Esther said...

milehi:
When I said 'As long as someone professes Jesus as their Lord, believing in the virgin birth, His death at Calvary and subsequent resurrection, confessing their sins and acknowledging their innate sinful nature of which only God can cleanse, I would call them Christian.'

Of course Jesus was fully God and fully man! He was the perfect sacrifice for our sins - if He had only been a man, His sacrifice would have meant nothing. He would have been another great 'teacher' who once lived and then died. Rather Jesus was born, lived, died and then rose to live forever more.

I thought Jesus being fully God and fully man would be understood - but I realize that is definitely a mistake on my part. That is something I take as a 'given' - it can be no other way. That is basic apologetics.

candyisascrazyasitgets has moved to http://www.candyisaliar.blogspot.com/ said...

So Esther how are you so sure that Christianity is correct? Why would a child in India, that has never been exposed to Christianity, be subject to hell just because he was incapable of hearing about the word of Jesus? There was a tribe that recently was found, via arial satelite along the Amazon. This tribe was assumed dead, and has not had any contact with the Western world. Now why would those people go to hell, when they have never heard of Christianity?

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

Esther,
I only brought it up because many, many religions that profess to be Christian either do not believe Christ was fully man, or they don't believe He was actually God.

Especially when talking about such divergent theology it's important to not assume! One must always define terms.

Amanda #1 said...

CIC, there's some "clause" about that. I'm sure someone else can answer it better, but basically, if you've never heard the word of God, you're not accountable or doomed to hell. It's only if you've heard the word of God and chosen to not follow it/believe in it, that you're doomed to eternal damnation.

My problem with this, then, is wouldn't we better off NOT spreading the word of God? I mean, if by telling them, and they refuse to believe, they are doomed to hell, wouldn't we be doing them more of a favor by NOT telling them?

Esther said...

Matthew, Was that they same lost tribe that turned out to be hoax? Or has there been another one discovered? I have been pretty busy at work, so I've only kept up with the main headlines in the last few weeks or so.

How can I be sure?... hmmm... not an easy question to answer, for sure. I do believe that within every person there is irresistible grace - a longing for the Creator. Paul states this in his letter to the Romans when he tells us that we can see the existence of God by looking around us at things He has created. Of course, it is in this same book (Romans) that Paul speaks of Abraham - who came from a pagan society where many, many gods were worshipped - that 'Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness.' KJV or if you prefer the NLT 'For the Scriptures tell us, "Abraham believed God, so God declared him to be righteous" (Romans 4:3). Even though Abraham was in a land and culture that did not believe in this Jewish God, he found him. God has said that only those who are able to be accountable will be held liable for their acceptance or nonacceptance of salvation/grace. Therefore, someone that had never had the opportunity to believe or the intellectual age or physical age to make that decision could not be held accountable.

How do I know that Christianity is correct and that other religions (Muslim, Buddahists, B'hai, etc) are not? Because the Creator of the world - Elohim- tells me that He is the great I AM (you can reference Moses and the burning bush in Exodus). God tells us that there is no other God but Him.

Basically, it comes down to faith. I want for you what I want for every non-believer: I would like for you search and openly seek the truth before you decide that this life is all there is. I am not here to 'debate', I can speak of only what I know. I do not fall on the floor and speak in unknown tongues, I do not adhere to 'word of faith' preachers (just pray and believe and you will get everything you ask for), but I do believe that Jesus came to live and He came to die for me and every other person on this planet. There is not an answer to every question.

nightowl said...

CIC said: "So Esther how are you so sure that Christianity is correct? Why would a child in India, that has never been exposed to Christianity, be subject to hell just because he was incapable of hearing about the word of Jesus? There was a tribe that recently was found, via arial satelite along the Amazon. This tribe was assumed dead, and has not had any contact with the Western world. Now why would those people go to hell, when they have never heard of Christianity?"


As a Catholic, I don't presume to know what happens to anyone in the afterlife. I believe that those who have never heard of Christ but do good as they know it in their heart have a very good chance of being in heaven. I believe that the more you know, the more God expects of you, and therefore it would be harder for a well-catechized Catholic than someone who has never heard of Jesus.

As for someone like Dahmer compared to someone like Mother Teresa being in heaven, there are different "levels" of heaven. So no, a person like Dahmer (who truly had a change of heart and became Christian right before death - only God knows that) would not enjoy the same level of heaven as someone like Mother Teresa.

I'd also like to point out that you are not "saved" until you are in heaven. Even St. Paul himself said he was working out his salvation with fear and trembling. Sounds a bit different than Candy's overconfident statements about being saved and knowing she is going to heaven.

Faith is a journey. Salvation is a journey. You don't know where you will be at the time of your death.

Rachel said...

Amanda,

I had to giggle at your post. Not a bad giggle.. but it does make sense! We are called to spread the Word. It is God's wish that ALL know him and decide to follow him - I guess less to split to the right and left come judgement day (again, another giggle)

Esther said...

Nightowl,
Of course I know where I will be at my death. I will be with my Savior in Paradise (just like the thief on the cross). This is Biblical. No where in God's word does He say: 'just do the best you can your whole life, and if I'm in a good mood the day you die, I'll let you into the good place - maybe.'

Do I have the perfect formula? Of course, not. But I do know that by following the Bible - God's own Word - that I am living as He dictates.

Working out one's salvation with fear and trembling is just that: you are responsible for your salvation by whether or not you accept God's gift. Our fear and trembling comes with our awe of God and our deep respect and love that causes us to adhere to His teachings, even when it would be easier not to do so.

I have never heard that one could not be 'saved' until they entered Heaven. Nor, have I heard about the different 'levels' of Heaven. My dear friend - born and raised a Catholic - and such a genius at church history! - told me that when he was a child being catechized, that he knew he had accepted God's gift of grace. His words: 'I knew I was saved for eternity'.

Jesus spoke about salvation and redemption and God made sure that this information was laid out in the epistles. (Nicodemus, the entire book of Romans, etc).

As I said before, it is for each person to determine is course.

Esther said...

Or rather:

As I said before, it is for each person to determine his course.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

Catholics call it "invincible ignorance". WE are bound by God's rules; HE is not bound by our rules.

I didn't know anyone besides Catholics believed that.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm (scroll down a bit to the invincible ignorance part).

Catholics believe that three things are necessary for a sin to be committed: An act must be gravely wrong, you must KNOW it is gravely wrong, and you must freely choose the action.

So if you don't know punching someone in the face is wrong (maybe you were brought up by Quentin Tarantino...), and you do it, it is not a sin. If someone grabs your hand and hits someone with it, it's not a sin (on your part).

Esther said...

"Invincible ignorance". I like that term.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

My problem with this, then, is wouldn't we better off NOT spreading the word of God? I mean, if by telling them, and they refuse to believe, they are doomed to hell, wouldn't we be doing them more of a favor by NOT telling them?

Amanda, you again made a good point. One that, truth be known, I have said and believed for a very long time. But, it has never really been received in any gracious way.

I've had this discussion with people when the topic of Missionaries comes up. I've asked if they didn't feel like they were actually condemning people to hell by spreading the Word of God to people not seeking or asking for it. These people, who until the Gospel was spread to them, fit into the "clause" that allowed them to avoid hell - until the Missionaries came along, told them about the bible, and condemned them to hell for not believing the words of some strangers from another country about a God they've never heard of. Yeah, it's their choice, but if someone were to just walk into your community and begin spreading some specific message, how would you react? In more advanced areas of the world, "The West", so to speak, even if you don't believe, chances are pretty good that you've heard of God and Jesus and Christianity. Therefore, when someone "gets saved", they know what they are working with, so to speak. But in parts of the world where any kind of religion, much less Christianity, is only brought to them by total strangers, they're not exactly going to be jumping for joy to become "saved" and join these people in their beliefs.

Whenever I bring that up with anyone, and my issues with it, I, of course get blown off as not understanding God (I never claimed to) or not being open to my own salvation or any number of other things that do everything but answer my questions.

Esther said...

Tia:
It is evident that you are a 'seeker' in this life and a person cares a lot about other people.

A lot of your questions are not going to be answered to your satisfaction by other, fallible humans. You are actually asking the wrong 'person'. Perhaps you should attempt to find the answer yourself, through God. This comes from reading His word and gaining an understanding of His mind. Ask God to reveal Himself to you - tell Him you are searching. You may be surprised at how much you learn.

Dana said...

Hi Ladies: I have been following this whole Christian soap opera since the VTC days.

I just want to point out something: in Candy's testimony today, she states that 'when I was a horrible sinner"...as a woman who has sat in an IFB congregation, I believe that there are some factions of protestants that truly believe that once they 'say the sinner's prayer' then they are absolved of all sins, past, present and future, which therefore puts them in a class above all others (kinda like the attitude that is exuded from Candy and her husband Erik).
As a practicing protestant, that always did not sit well with me. It just didn't seem correct -- or rather, supernatural.
In their consistent kicking against the goads, it would appear to me that the harder they kick, deep down they know that they are in the wrong. Anyone that fights against so adamently against another's beliefs in the basics without really consulting beyond someone who is also a layperson, then to me that is just based on a feeling.
Another thing: biblically, all things knew God and Jesus, that includes satan and his demons. They know Him too.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

No, it would not be better to *not* know. Even if we do not know about Christ, we are still called to live moral lives (i.e., in all cultures murder is wrong.) The law of God is written on men's hearts.

God's grace help us to live a moral life. It also helps develop our conscience.

candyisascrazyasitgets has moved to http://www.candyisaliar.blogspot.com/ said...

Esther: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25350389/
I'm not sure that it was a hoax as of yet, but I guess only time will tell, but what is actually being debated is whether or not the tribe was known of, which it was in 1910, but few have had any contact with them since then.
Secondly, I guess the answer is that God will find them. This is the difficult part of having a theological discussion with someone that is an avid believer (nothing at all wrong about that). There is an existence of faith that is very difficult to discuss. "Because the Creator of the world - Elohim- tells me that He is the great," but I am sure that Mohamed, Buda, David Koresh, and Dharma have told their believers as well. I understand that you have true faith and that is the basis of your answers, and I understand that. I just think there are too many times where logic get lost in it. That is logic from the outside looking in and you are from a different view point, so the level of difficulty associated with a discussion like this is way up there.
I think it is pretty clear that the bible says that it is through faith alone that your path to heaven is granted.
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4: 1-5.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7 21-23
Man shall not eat from bread alone Mattew 4:4

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with ALL thy mind. THIS is the first and great commandment Matthew 22 36-38
You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Matthew 7: 13-14

and the list goes on and on. So I think the Christian answer is no or at least from what I can tell. I really have a hard time understanding that.

Now to your third statement. I have had an exhaustive look into a lot of religion, and believe me I have given Christianity one heck of a run in my past. I have listened and searched, but to no avail. I think one of the issues that I have with Christianity is its ambassadors. The people that I came into contact with were horrible sales people for your cause. I say this without a single incident, but many incidents. From being pressured to speak in tonges, baptized when I wasn't ready, saved when I wasn't ready, and learning about Revelations when I wasn't ready, and by Pentacostals. Picture that and you can probably see my issues.

Dana said...

Ok this is what bothered me the most:

"when I was a horrible sinner"

what happened? she's not a sinner now that she believes she is saved?

yikes.

Esther said...

Bless your heart, Matthew. I absolutely do see and understand the road you have traveled. That is why I ventured to 'speak' to you today. You have never met the 'real' God. People have tried to shove Him - or their form of Him - down your throat. I respect you. You are an intelligent person; and you are correct, I am an avid believer. It took me quite a while to understand that statement in the Bible that the 'ways of God is but foolishness to men' (that is paraphrased I am sure!). I am a person who loves to study and analyze. I came to the understanding, after much fear and trembling, that logic is man's attempt to understand the eternal. It cannot be done.

Keep searching Matthew. I have faith.

Anonymous said...

Esther, can you tell me what it is about my posts that tell you that I am a "seeker"? I ask this question honestly, because maybe that is why I have such run-ins with people trying to save me.

I am perfectly content with my belief and value system. Like any person, I could of course do better, be better, work harder. But, I am not seeking Jesus. I am not seeking God. I am not seeking a status with them or a position in this life or after this life. For many things in life, I am perfectly fine with not having answers and not knowing the why or the how. Life is a mystery, and to me, that's a good thing.

I am enthusiastic about history and culture. Both make the world go 'round. Historically, religion has been the foundation behind culture, so my love of historical and cultural studies led me right smack into religion. I am curious about people, their beliefs, why they hold to their beliefs, and what happens when those beliefs are threatened. I am curious about the extremes some members of particular faiths will go to. I am enamored by and in awe of the love and compassion shown by some people of faith who go out of their way simply to help people. Paradoxically, though, I am dumbfounded and confused when people of faith go out of their way to insult, hurt or degrade other people, not to mention those who resort to murder, physical harm or any number of things extremists - in all religions of all faiths since the dawn of time - have resorted to.

I am very interested in people and the elements that make them tick. Not psychologically, but environmentally. And, history and culture allow me to examine that interest, and religion is pretty much necessary when studying either of these areas.

So, I have an interest in religion in that is affects so much of people's lives throughout history. It has dictated their cultural and societal norms.

I don't really examine religion any differently than I do history or culture. I cannot see the whole picture without all the pieces. I am not seeking personal spiritual changes or feelings when I examine religion and ask questions any more than I am seeking to eat a monkey head when I examine Asian culture.

It's an interest to me. While in College, rather late in the game - too late to change any of my areas of study without keeping me there longer, and costing me more money - I took several Humanities courses. Those courses, taken over about 2.5 years, changed my life. They opened up a whole world for me. The same one I'd lived in all my life, but never saw. I have a passion for learning about things that are not right outside my door or can be taught in a classroom.

So, my interest in religion is tied up in my interests in many other things. I wonder, based on your comments to me, if my interests are, somehow, making me appear to be someone seeking religious or spiritual grounding, or answers, when I'm really just trying to find out how it all "fits".

candyisascrazyasitgets has moved to http://www.candyisaliar.blogspot.com/ said...

Well I will take all the blessings that I can get, including prayers. I am not going to buck a free chip at the poker table. Thank you for the kind words Esther, and I will continue to search. Although, I am positive we will not be walking the same path. But hey, there is no law forbidding us to wave as we pass, right? Thanks again, and hopefully peace will follow you everywhere.

Esther said...

Tia,
I keep forgetting that I have to watch my verbiage and phrasing because of the KTH site. I didn't particularly mean you were seeking Jesus, God, Buddah, or any diety. I meant that you are a person who constantly desires to learn and finds your world a classroom. Your last post definitely proves that!

candyisascrazyasitgets has moved to http://www.candyisaliar.blogspot.com/ said...

Amen, Tia

Esther said...

Absolutely, Matthew! In fact, I am sure that if knew each other in RL, we might actually be friends.

Be well!

Anonymous said...

Ah, Esther, now I understand.

I think that because this site came about because of a religious based site, and many people here do get into theological discussions, that I somehow automatically put myself into that mind set, in a way, when I'm here.

I get it now. And, I have to say, I agree with you. I only wish I'd known this about myself at a much younger age. I did the college thing later in life, in my 30's, and now I'm in my 40's with a job I really enjoy, and went to school to get, but an area of interest and passion that has nothing to do with how I make my living.

Thanks for being gracious about the misunderstanding. I don't think most of us here are used to that, either, when misunderstandings occur in this particular realm.

Esther said...

Not a problem, Tia! We're all on a journey in our lives. We should really attempt to get along as trudge the path.

Amanda #1 said...

MHM: “No, it would not be better to *not* know. Even if we do not know about Christ, we are still called to live moral lives (i.e., in all cultures murder is wrong.) The law of God is written on men's hearts.
God's grace help us to live a moral life. It also helps develop our conscience.”

This just confuses me more. If we agree that basic morals (ie, murder, lying, and theft are wrong) are fundamentally human, and that God’s law is written on our hearts, then we can also say that, with or without a belief in God, man is driven to do what is “right”.

So what about Bob in Tanzania? Bob doesn’t believe in God, has never heard about God, but lives his life in a way that would be admired by any religious person. He is honest, compassionate, kind, giving, etc… If he continues to go on in blissful ignorance, we can assume that God will allow him into heaven because he followed all His tenets, even if he didn’t know Who he was following.

But now some “Helpful” missionary from Decatur, Illinois, swoops in to tell him all about God’s son who died for our sins. Bob is a logical man, even if he is from a sequestered tribe, and he’s skeptical about this girl he’s never met. Kinda like when a Jehovah’s Witness comes knockin’ on our door, Bob thinks that this girl is full of it and politely shuts the door to his hut. Bob, who has now heard that Christ died for our sins, goes on living his life in the same honest way that he always has and dies at an old age of natural causes…..

Only to burn in the eternal fires of hell because he heard the word of God and did not listen. How did Susie from Decatur do Bob any favors?

And what am I to think of a God who would condemn Bob to the pits of hell, but allow in Jeffrey Dahmer, who decided on his deathbed, “Oh shit, it’s now or never”?

I’d also like to make clear that, whether it’s Catholic or not, I don’t believe God works like this. I don’t really believe that God is going to send Bob to hell—even though he was a morally upstanding member of society--because he chose to worship LuLu the Goddess of the Corn, instead of believing Susie from Decatur. I can accept that I might run into Dahmer in heaven. I cannot accept that God is going to send Bob to hell.

Milehimama @ Mama Says said...

Ah, but did he hear the Word of God from Bob the missionary?

Was the fullness of the truth preached, and was the tribesman actually able to hear it?

Just because someone tells you, that you need Jesus, doesn't mean you have been preached the Gospel. The gospel is more than a Scripture verse or two slung around.

Only God knows what is in our hearts. My point is that I truly, truly believe that with God's grace, doing the right thing is easier (not always easy, but easiER!)

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